Public Enemy’s Chuck D has issued a thoughtful rebuttal to Gene Simmons after the KISS bassist once again argued that hip-hop artists do not belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

During a recent podcast appearance, Simmons claimed hip-hop is “spoken-word art” rather than rock music and drew criticism for saying the genre “didn’t speak his language” because he “didn’t come from the ghetto.”

Chuck D responded by “schooling” Simmons on music history, explaining that while hip-hop may not be “rock,” it perfectly embodies the “roll” (the soul, flow, and movement) that the Hall of Fame is intended to honor.

Chuck D acknowledged that while KISS are undeniable “rock gods,” they “don’t have a lot of roll to them,” suggesting that Simmons lacks an understanding of the genre’s cultural intersections.

The hip-hop pioneer pointed out that Simmons makes this same argument “every three years,” typically whenever new rap icons are nominated or inducted into the institution.

Chuck D emphasized that the Rock Hall is about rebellion and cultural impact, arguing that hip-hop carried that torch after rock music became more fragmented in the late 20th century.